got Smurfs?

[Brave Warrior]

I can't see this anywhere in any of the threads, or rules, etc, but is there a requirement to associate player name with GUIDs? (eg. the thread that lists all the players in the clans) Otherwise, umm, how do you know players are, who they say they are?

[sad.act]

You hope, I think.

[Spork]

Pretty sure the admins have their ways.

[frostalarm]

i agree with brave, its not to hard and its a really quick way to check. Just do it i say =]

[Spork]

i agree with brave, its not to hard and its a really quick way to check. Just do it i say =]

Uhh..... He hasn't suggested anything? He asked if there was anything that can be done.

I think it may be harder as it is so easy to change your name on COD4.

[switch.]

Uhh..... He hasn't suggested anything? He asked if there was anything that can be done.

I think it may be harder as it is so easy to change your name on COD4.

yes he said player names should be matched with the GUID's to stop smurfing.

[winfieldsaregoo]

lol because the admins are going to get 150 peoples GUID for this mult million doller comp

[Ra1nm4n]

Does guid's get assigned to your cd key or you computer? If it is to your cd key you can just give it the player that wants to play for you. (that is if you trust them.) and so none knows the difference.

[Catalyst]

lol because the admins are going to get 150 peoples GUID for this mult million doller comp

why not

[3N][X]

yeah, its not hard to do.

[Matt]

Because it's alot more work making every player wait while their guid is checked off, checking it if they reconnect etc...

[5loth]

Because it's alot more work making every player wait while their guid is checked off, checking it if they reconnect etc...

its only used if questions are asked.

when running a competition, you should atleast put measures in place to ensure people aren't cheating, especially when said measures take little
effort.

otherwise, what happens if say sila. got into the final, and we were one
person short, so we brought in an awesome player to play for us, that would
be better than our original player?

[Hazard]

There are a few things that need to be tweaked, which will be tweaked by round 2.

I have been stupid busy at work lately and haven't had time to dot all the I's and cross all the T's. But don't worry, dotting and crossing will be taken care of

[Brave Warrior]

By GUIDs, I meant "punkbuster GUIDs" which are unique where as COD GUIDs are not necessarily. Then teams when they play can issue a "\pb_plist" capture the output using "\screenshotJPEG" and later (usually if they lose, lol) they can check the other team roster and make sure they're valid. I've seen instances where some teams choose to check during warm up and if they find a discrepancy, they say nothing at the time and use it as an "out" for a default win if they lose to that team with a player not on their roster. Hard core yes, but tactful none the less.. :)

It doesn't take long to get PB GUIDs and put them alongside the player names on the original thread. It then also makes the GUID more important than the player name, allowing players to user different in game names if they choose. (because ultimately you're checking the GUID and have little interest in the named player)

[Pawny]

PBguid checking is the way that the whole of the CoD series has worked for identifying individuals, and is in place in most comps to stop smurfing (someone pretending to be someone else).

There are also websites out there that have an index of most of the player names that are associated with these individual PBguid's.

Would be an easy and essential addition to the comp. :D

[SirGrimNZ]

Easy method would be to first get each player from each team's GUID.
Then put that in a database.
Then say team A and team B have a match,change the server so that only the GUID's on the database from team A and those from team B will be able to join
Easy as pie :)

[Brave Warrior]

A quick way would be to have each team edit their team roster post and add the GUIDs next to each of the players.

[Brave Warrior]

In addition, because you will be using refs for _all_ games, you could possibly have them check the player GUIDs on the rosters before "ready up". This was an approach used in one season of MGL COD and worked fine. Ok it took upwards of 5 mins for the ref to check, but players made use of the time without issue.

In a ladder/league matches without ref's present, the gamers were left to check and report any issues post to the organiser(s), or prior to the opposing team captain at the time.

[The Tick]

A quick way would be to have each team edit their team roster post and add the GUIDs next to each of the players.

Thats a great idea and also wont involve any more work for you hazard! :-)

[SirGrimNZ]

In addition, because you will be using refs for _all_ games, you could possibly have them check the player GUIDs on the rosters before "ready up". This was an approach used in one season of MGL COD and worked fine. Ok it took upwards of 5 mins for the ref to check, but players made use of the time without issue.

In a ladder/league matches without ref's present, the gamers were left to check and report any issues post to the organiser(s), or prior to the opposing team captain at the time.

Or you can take my advice,and just make it so only the GUID's you nominate can JOIN the server,that way a ref doesnt' have to spend 10min checking every match.

[Catalyst]

Or you can take my advice,and just make it so only the GUID's you nominate can JOIN the server,that way a ref doesnt' have to spend 10min checking every match.

read the thread, the admin doesnt have to spend 10 minutes looking, its jsut used if questions are raised about certain players

[The Tick]

Or you can take my advice,and just make it so only the GUID's you nominate can JOIN the server,that way a ref doesnt' have to spend 10min checking every match.

who do you purpose on making this database? and maintaining it?
sounds like alot of unnecessary work when only under 5% of games will actually be disputed.

[Chook]

YEA I GOT SMURFS LOLOLOL TOWLIE!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=YXvAohycajI&mode=related&search=

[frostalarm]

Uhh..... He hasn't suggested anything? He asked if there was anything that can be done.

I think it may be harder as it is so easy to change your name on COD4.

if you put down ur guid, and soneone else plays as your name with their guid, people will be able to tell that someone is smurfing =].

Changing your name doesnt change your guid.

[Goldo]

Be on the look out for shady characters like these:

http://nsslha.rso.wisc.edu/images/Halloween%202004/SMURFS.jpg

[pyro]

As said previously, everyone should update their player rosters thread to include guids. Then its the teams responsibility to take a screenshot of the guids in game and check them, either before the game during the warm up, or after the game. Any problems found after match's with a team and a wrong guid i.e. a smurf, the team suffers a penalty. Possibly also suspending the smurf and the player aliased for x number of rounds.

Thus not making extra work for the refs/admins.

p.s. Haz this is more for you and other admins, im sure you have heard/used some sort of alias finder before, ive used these guys for the past few years, and they just added cod4 support. http://www.aliasfinder.co.uk/products/afms/download.htm
Basically it tracks alias's guids and ips used, along with dates and times. So any discrepancies coming back about smurfing along with the screenshots of the guids from the war, they can also be double checked and confirmed with afinder.

If you want to try it out you will need the latest beta ver.

[9th.PirateJafa]

A quick way would be to have each team edit their team roster post and add the GUIDs next to each of the players.
No. It'd kinda screw over those who game from net cafes.

Unless of course you just add every single GUID from every machine in the building. :rolleyes:

[The Tick]

No. It'd kinda screw over those who game from net cafes.

Unless of course you just add every single GUID from every machine in the building. :rolleyes:

what netcafe's have cod4?

[Brave Warrior]

No. It'd kinda screw over those who game from net cafes.

Unless of course you just add every single GUID from every machine in the building. :rolleyes:

1 - What percentage of gamers play COD4 from a netcafe?
2 - Of that percentage, how many of them are participating in this tournament?
3 - Of that percentage, how many round robin games would they play in?
4 - Of that percentage, how many of them wouldn't be able to use the same PC (thereby have the same PB guid and not be a problem) in the net cafe to play?
5 - taking that into account, x = ?

So, ok, do nothing then, that's much better yeah, cool, cater for the single figure (if not less) percentage of tournament participants that might be affected by your statement above.

Or... forget about it, using the typical risk mitigate that the likelihood is low enough to not care a less and rely on any "legitimate cod4 playing net cafe tournament participants" falling outside the above to approach the organisers, while everybody else just "does it!"

[Menial]

Iconz tourney is serious business after all.

[Jack_L]

Iconz tourney is serious business after all.

lol. ops no rep lamments. aw well rep+10

[Brave Warrior]

1 - What percentage of gamers play COD4 from a netcafe?
2 - Of that percentage, how many of them are participating in this tournament?
3 - Of that percentage, how many round robin games would they play in?
4 - Of that percentage, how many of them wouldn't be able to use the same PC (thereby have the same PB guid and not be a problem) in the net cafe to play?
5 - taking that into account, x = ?

So, ok, do nothing then, that's much better yeah, cool, cater for the single figure (if not less) percentage of tournament participants that might be affected by your statement above.

Or... forget about it, using the typical risk mitigate that the likelihood is low enough to not care a less and rely on any "legitimate cod4 playing net cafe tournament participants" falling outside the above to approach the organisers, while everybody else just "does it!"

The point attempting to be made on this post (becasue it looks like clarification is required) is that PB GUID registration/association would be a good thing to impose regardless of the unquantified number of netcafe players participating in this tournament that might be affected.

[playerB]

undoubtedly PBGUID's would be a great idea. Although its not worth the effort IMO and im not terribly concerned about smurfing.
as a show of hands who thinks smurfing will reach epidemic?

[The Tick]

I believe smurfing could/will be a problem!

the actual way of looking at it is, its not a hassle to update your own team lists with the PBID, that way if you are complained against you have a proof.

[Pawny]

It won't be a problem yet, but when it gets to the quater/semi final stage and matches have evident worth, some clans may bring in awesome players from clans that have already been knocked out in order to gain the uper hand.

[Temp]

lol. ops no rep lamments. aw well rep+10

Another candidate for the IMOTY award. I wondered when we'd see your beak!

[Xt1ncT]

1 - What percentage of gamers play COD4 from a netcafe?
2 - Of that percentage, how many of them are participating in this tournament?
3 - Of that percentage, how many round robin games would they play in?
4 - Of that percentage, how many of them wouldn't be able to use the same PC (thereby have the same PB guid and not be a problem) in the net cafe to play?
5 - taking that into account, x = ?

So, ok, do nothing then, that's much better yeah, cool, cater for the single figure (if not less) percentage of tournament participants that might be affected by your statement above.

Or... forget about it, using the typical risk mitigate that the likelihood is low enough to not care a less and rely on any "legitimate cod4 playing net cafe tournament participants" falling outside the above to approach the organisers, while everybody else just "does it!"Knowing the majority of clans in the Iconz tournament, I highly doubt that they would have anyone aliasing.

[pyro]

Knowing the majority of clans in the Iconz tournament, I highly doubt that they would have anyone aliasing.

Yes but how hard is it to collect your teams guids and update the forums.

Why do you people have to make it seem so difficult.

Everyone updates their guids in the forums and in game you take a screenshot of the guids and check them afterwards, any discrepancies you pass it onto an admin to resolve. You don't even have to check them if you don't want to, its more a safety measure than anything.

[sad.act]

A team could edit their players GUID list before a game.. you'd have to get an admin to check what was before the edit, I think they can do that.

[Hazard]

I will be doing some work on this soon.
So let's just see round 1 out as is, and we'll get it all sorted for the next rounds.

I don't want to over complicate things and have to check all players all the time, so checks will only happen IF a problem was to pop up and/or random checks. So if you smurf, then your team may be at risk of a forfeit.

But anyway, today is not the day for this sort of thing :P All will be sorted before Round 2

[Menial]

A team could edit their players GUID list before a game.. you'd have to get an admin to check what was before the edit, I think they can do that.

Reckon, Haz should print the submitted list out, then take it straight to a safety deposit box, God knows we wouldn't want someone hacking his pc and editing the file.... Might also spark some "Inside man" type bank robbery _b


But yeah, just guid everybody.


God, give Haz a fucking break.

[Infected]

Reckon, Haz should print the submitted list out, then take it straight to a safety deposit box, God knows we wouldn't want someone hacking his pc and editing the file.... Might also spark some "Inside man" type bank robbery _b


But yeah, just guid everybody.


God, give Haz a fucking break.

Don't be so defensive,its not like your trying to hide something gees....

[winfieldsaregoo]

lol if every one was honest i know that most clans have done it in the ga bf2 ladders, and if you get in to the finals you should be able to beat any one smurffing for a team if not you shouldnt be at the top simple as that

[sad.act]

lol no one ever smurfs in GA matches Winny what are you talking about...

[winfieldsaregoo]

oh my mistake must have been another game and ladder i was thinking of

[Menial]

But yeah, just guid everybody.





Don't be so defensive,its not like your trying to hide something gees....

I see some hardcore defence there.

[Infected]

I see some hardcore defence there.

Wow,sarcastic and serious all in one post? thats skitzawesome!

[Brave Warrior]

OMG I can't believe how much effort people think this is to do? In terms of the thread, it can be locked after date x when the captains have added the GUIDs. It's that easy.

[winfieldsaregoo]

hay you mised mine

do them all then if you whant it done ezy

cobras game name in cod is FRIECRUTCH

[Brave Warrior]

What I posted was just a "start" after connecting to about 6-7 servers and retrieving the player GUIDs. I was attempting to show the ease at which it can be done and is certainly incomplete...

[gliss]

Obviously no one appreciates wat your doing brave. But we do come back to GP :D

[Infected]

People cant read around here brave.

At least you're trying and we/i at least appreciate your effort in trying to teach these people.

[=C=]

At some point I could understand teams using smurfs for:

Eg. you can only enter 8 players in this team but you may have 16-20 players.
And eventually some of those players on that team would also like a game.

But if you're using players that are not in your own team ie. other players from different teams so that you could have an advantage would definitely be classed as a no, no.

[Hazard]

I never said it was hard work, I just said wait till round 2 and that I didn't want to do it tonight as spending my birthday dicking around with GUID's really isn't appealing :P

I know for a fact that a few people have smurfed in round 1 and that's why I haven't been doing anything about it YET - I now have a small list of people to keep an eye on.

I'm not going to start policing it 1/2 way through round 1 - so come round 2 there will be measures in place to ensure that smurfs aren't smurfing.

It will be in the form of random checks and/or if questions are rasied, and it will be AFTER the games are complete. So lets take the =[GD]= vs {DD} game, if =[GD]= raised a complaint after the game that they thought there Poppa Smurf was actually Smurfet, then I will go and check out the GUID's and match them up - if there's an issue then {DD} would have any points voided for that game and warned about smurfing.

I don't want to do this before the game starts as there is only 10mins from the posted start time and ensuring people are ready, getting sides picked, etc eats the majority of that time.

[Menial]

Jesus Christ Infected, are so so in love with the shit that spews forth from your wretched mouth to actually see fact?



I will be doing some work on this soon.
So let's just see round 1 out as is, and we'll get it all sorted for the next rounds.

I don't want to over complicate things and have to check all players all the time, so checks will only happen IF a problem was to pop up and/or random checks. So if you smurf, then your team may be at risk of a forfeit.

But anyway, today is not the day for this sort of thing :P All will be sorted before Round 2

[Menial]

Jesus Christ Infected, are so so in love with the shit that spews forth from your wretched mouth to actually see fact?



I will be doing some work on this soon.
So let's just see round 1 out as is, and we'll get it all sorted for the next rounds.

I don't want to over complicate things and have to check all players all the time, so checks will only happen IF a problem was to pop up and/or random checks. So if you smurf, then your team may be at risk of a forfeit.

But anyway, today is not the day for this sort of thing :P All will be sorted before Round 2

[Infected]

So when it gets serious sila a-team could/can play/alias for sila b-team and no one would know any better?

Sounds like bullshit to me~

[Menial]

Oh noes, you have found us out.

[esKi]

thread saved tbh.

[Menial]

Get a black pvc one, then we'll talk.

[cobra]

cobras game name in cod is FRIECRUTCH

godbless winnie

so close yet so far

[Brave Warrior]

why did you edit my post Hazard? Was it in breach of the rules or something? tis only publicly available information that any noob can get from any public server...

*sigh*

[Brave Warrior]

I never said it was hard work, I just said wait till round 2 and that I didn't want to do it tonight as spending my birthday dicking around with GUID's really isn't appealing :P

Gamers are very fickle beasts with unrealistic expectations especially around the timing of responses to queries etc. You could always delegate tasks... It's not like everybody here expects you to do everything and it's not like previous offers haven't been made.


I know for a fact that a few people have smurfed in round 1 and that's why I haven't been doing anything about it YET - I now have a small list of people to keep an eye on.

I'm not going to start policing it 1/2 way through round 1 - so come round 2 there will be measures in place to ensure that smurfs aren't smurfing.

It will be in the form of random checks and/or if questions are rasied, and it will be AFTER the games are complete. So lets take the =[GD]= vs {DD} game, if =[GD]= raised a complaint after the game that they thought there Poppa Smurf was actually Smurfet, then I will go and check out the GUID's and match them up - if there's an issue then {DD} would have any points voided for that game and warned about smurfing.

Great, so does that mean you are now making a new rule requiring that all punkbuster GUIDs be entered on a player roster before round 2? Because you haven't actually stated that requirement yet and it will be the only way to check something post match/incident.


I don't want to do this before the game starts as there is only 10mins from the posted start time and ensuring people are ready, getting sides picked, etc eats the majority of that time.

You wont have to anyway, once it has been decreed a requirement, the team captains (and team individuals) will do that. It's fairly standard in cod before matches for players to issue:

1. \clear
2. \pb_plist
3. \screenshotJPEG

Hell some even have it scripted and bound to a key...

[Hazard]

really just over complicating things tbh.

As I keep saying, let's just get through round 1 and THEN I will sort it out. When I do that there will be a rule made, but AFTER round 1. Easy.

And there are much, much easier way's of getting GUID without expecting players/captains/etc to do it. Sure it's easy to do with 3 simple commands, but I don't like having rules that state you must do this this and this before the round goes live.

I agree it's not hard, but I always like to keep things simple.... so here's my simple way of doing it...... ready? Join the server you are playing on. That's it, done - I now have you're GUID displayed to me via the rcon console - players don't need to do a thing.

As I have said, I will have it sorted out for round 2..... I really don't see why we keep bringing it up. I will have a system in place, it will work, it will require no effort from anyone other than a copy/paste from the ref's. So let's just wait till round 2.

[Brave Warrior]

really just over complicating things tbh.

As I keep saying, let's just get through round 1 and THEN I will sort it out. When I do that there will be a rule made, but AFTER round 1. Easy.

Awesome cheers.


And there are much, much easier way's of getting GUID without expecting players/captains/etc to do it. Sure it's easy to do with 3 simple commands, but I don't like having rules that state you must do this this and this before the round goes live.

My last comment on this was simply to state that gamers/capts will do this regardless and check for themselves against th player rosters. Certainly I know I would.


I agree it's not hard, but I always like to keep things simple.... so here's my simple way of doing it...... ready? Join the server you are playing on. That's it, done - I now have you're GUID displayed to me via the rcon console - players don't need to do a thing.

Yep cool, so at game time you will do this and that's great. Before this though, will you have expetced to have all the GUIDs submitted for some kind of regsiter if not the forum post, else what will you hve to compare against?


As I have said, I will have it sorted out for round 2..... I really don't see why we keep bringing it up. I will have a system in place, it will work, it will require no effort from anyone other than a copy/paste from the ref's. So let's just wait till round 2.

The only reason it keeps getting brought up is becasue your last post was the only time that you said what will _actually_ be done as opposed to saying "something will be done", so thanks for that.

But you didn't answer why you edited my previous post with the GUIDs though??

[Hazard]

I sent you a PM about your post, nothing serious.



Yep cool, so at game time you will do this and that's great. Before this though, will you have expetced to have all the GUIDs submitted for some kind of regsiter if not the forum post, else what will you hve to compare against?

Who says I don't already have a fairly complete register? ;)
Everyone that has joined the tournament servers so far is on my list. I'll just need to get reserves, etc - but it will all be sorted.

[Brave Warrior]

Yep, sweet, PM read and all good. :) In terms of gathering a comprehensive list to use, that's awesome. If you're not wanting to post the GUIDs anywhere, could you please consider emailing all players GUIDs to each of the team captains at least, for the following reasons

- They can confim that the GUID you have for their particular player is the one they will continue to use for the remaining duration of the tournament
- That they have access to the other clan players GUIDs so that they can do their own checks post match if they wish (because although they will be able to see what the other teams GUIDs are on connect, they wont have anything to compare it against afterward if not published publicly)

cheers... :)

[Pawny]

That would be a good idea Brave.

Just waiting on some websites to build their GUID index with known aliasis. It's the easiest way to find out who's playing and other names they have played under.

Even easier option.

PS: Anyone know why most of the CoD veterans are getting negative feedback on posts that are discussing the rules/ideas for the comp, even tho they haven't been attacking/flaming anyone. Ridiculous tbh, especially that Brave is receiving it.

[Snake_Daddy]

lol at brave worryer. Hazard said he has it sorted let it go bro :P

[5loth]

agreed, (with pawny)

these guys (especially bravewarrior) are giving input which IMO needs to be made, without it we'd still be playing in a competition with no anti-smurfing
in place, and whatever else they've suggested.

from the feedback i'm seeing regarding game formats etc. in these forums,
alot of players don't seem to be interested in playing in a quality tournament
(quality being one that has good anti-cheat measures in place, be it anti-smurfing and a good PB config) that follows international standards.

to me, thats like us saying "we're going to play rugby in new zealand,
but instead of playing in halves like the rest of the world, we'll play in quarters, and the object of the game is no longer to score tries but to
kick the ball in the air as high as you can".

[Ra1nm4n]

I don't think he is getting flamed for trying to help out with the anti cheat. I think it is that hazard has said multiple times he has it covered and brave just keeps going on about it. Its not a matter of him showing interest in helping with the comp i think it is that he is just going on about the same thing over and over.

It is nice to see someone showing an interest in helping its just the annoyance of reading the same things he is writing.

[The Tick]

Brave is not going on about, its because no one answered his question to the detail requested.

Hazard has now, so this is a none issue.

Everything that Brave has done is to try and help the tourny so no issues arise in the future....

[Brave Warrior]

I kinda just ask questions when I'm confused about something. When they get answered it's all good. In some cases when they don't get answered I'll re-state it, as opposed to some people that say "Oh, ok.." without really being any better off. In a couple of cases here I've gone further to seek clarification in a bit more detail.

If I thought it was clear initially and then I kept harping on, then yeah I agree that would be "not good". But it is only because the responses have been a little bit unclear. but not now.. :)

Oh lol I've just noticed the feedback/rep thing pawny. Oh well, I don't particularly care what others might think. They're entitled to their opinions. Free will is all good. Keep up the good work team... :D

[Ra1nm4n]

I kinda just ask questions when I'm confused about something. When they get answered it's all good. In some cases when they don't get answered I'll re-state it, as opposed to some people that say "Oh, ok.." without really being any better off. In a couple of cases here I've gone further to seek clarification in a bit more detail.

If I thought it was clear initially and then I kept harping on, then yeah I agree that would be "not good". But it is only because the responses have been a little bit unclear. but not now.. :)

Oh lol I've just noticed the feedback/rep thing pawny. Oh well, I don't particularly care what others might think. They're entitled to their opinions. Free will is all good. Keep up the good work team... :D

Please don't tell me you are a tree hugger. Then i will have to neg rep you.:letitout:

[D_Unit]

This brave warrior dude seriously kick ass.


+ rep dude from me.

[Menial]

I will be doing some work on this soon.
So let's just see round 1 out as is, and we'll get it all sorted for the next rounds.

I don't want to over complicate things and have to check all players all the time, so checks will only happen IF a problem was to pop up and/or random checks. So if you smurf, then your team may be at risk of a forfeit.

But anyway, today is not the day for this sort of thing :P All will be sorted before Round 2

Seriously, at this point here, anybody should be able to see that the GUID issue was sorted.

The rest of the toss that followed was (people) not stopping to actually read because they were already jumped up over it.

Storm in a teacup really.

[Pawny]

I too am not bothered with the rep, until I heard that you auto banned if you get to bad of a rep.. :(

[playerB]

wtf are you on about? you dont get banned for having red rep. look at some of the people here, nothing but red.

[sad.act]

If you had a storm in your tea cup, would you wait till it ended before trying to drink your tea?

[Hazard]

no, that way it would seem more manly than just drinking tea

[Pawny]

wtf are you on about? you dont get banned for having red rep. look at some of the people here, nothing but red.

Gah, people lie to me... :asian: