Official Tournament Discussion Thread

[Hazard]

All tournament discussion to go here

[Hazard]

Just so everyone knows, I will not be involved in any way with my clan's effort in this tournament.

For this tournament, Kiwibaa (aka Dirty Leroy) and Captcol will be looking after things {DD} related.

[5loth]

two questions/issues,

are all gun attachments ie. grenade launcher, scopes allowed?


secondly,

the scoring format of first to 12 imo is flawed, for example:

some maps are near impossible to attack on as its too easy to defend,
so consider this:

Team A starts defending, they win 6-0.
teams then swap over.
Team B successfully defends 6-0.
teams swap over.
Team A successfully defends 6-0.

Team A wins, all because they were the defending team first.

In Counter Strike, you play 15 rounds, swap teams, and it is the first
to 16 rounds. This is a completely even way of scoring.

If you want this to have a fair scoring manner, that can't be disputed,

you should change it to only one swap over needed, and the winning score
to be one more than the roundswap number.

[Hazard]

As discussed on MSN, weapon attachements will be available for everyone, it will only be the perks that are disabled.

The scoring will be updated to 12 round halves, first team to 13 wins.

Cheers :D

[Spork]

Maybe a dumb question but with the teams, do the players have to be the same for each game? Or do teams just have to front 5 players no matter who they are (as long as they are a part of the clan of course)?

EDIT: Just read the registration thread.. I see we only have 6 players all up.

Cheers

[Hazard]

They must be registered to that team.
Teams can have up to 6 people registered.
Any of the 6 players can play in any match, but you must have at least 4 turn up.

Having teams with set players makes things easier to manage as the refs will know what is meant to be playing, it will be easier to make sure reserves are used correctly, etc.

However, if you have a specific requirement to register more players, then we may be able to amend the rules a bit, but I would prefer to keep teams to named players only.

[Spork]

Yea fair enough. Just making sure.

Will look forward to my share in TBAG's prize for winning the tourney.

Cheers :)

[swindle]

Will the weapons that are available be ones you have unlocked?

Also, maps.

Some suck balls. E.g. Wet Work and Shipping, and will also suck balls for a tourney. Can those 2 maps be left out?

[nzjeebs]

Will the weapons that are available be ones you have unlocked?

Also, maps.

Some suck balls. E.g. Wet Work and Shipping, and will also suck balls for a tourney. Can those 2 maps be left out?

If shipping is the one on the boat then i hope not, love that map...

[SneakyNZ]

Any estimate time or date yet?

We cant register without one, and I have had a look around for the date.

[Xt1ncT]

6 players for a 5v5 comp is too few IMO.

Should be at least 8 to allow for other prior commitments etc.

[SneakyNZ]

5v5 is the standard scrimming layout so I see no problem there

however If your talking about reserves, should be able to have a wee bit more

[nataS]

Are you going to limit the number of snipers/shotgunners in a team or can anyone have as many as they like in the one team?

[`Dirty Heathen]

As discussed on MSN, weapon attachements will be available for everyone, it will only be the perks that are disabled.

The scoring will be updated to 12 round halves, first team to 13 wins.

Cheers :D


So you can use any unlocks weapons and attachment but no perks sounds good to me.

[9th.PirateJafa]

If shipping is the one on the boat then i hope not, love that map...

As I recall, Shipping/Shipment is the small square map that consists of grass and a few TEU containers. Bloody CS-esque map.


Agreed that we need a date. Ideally at least 2-3 weeks off, as most teams are still familiarising themselves with maps/gameplay, and many players are in the middle of end-of-year university exams for the next week or two.


Looking forward to it though, and you should be able to count 9th in. :)

[5loth]

Are you going to limit the number of snipers/shotgunners in a team or can anyone have as many as they like in the one team?

shotguns aren't very effective, so i see no point in limiting them?

and also, most of the maps are close quarter combat heavy,

so anyone who wanted to deck out their team with snipers would get shat on.

[blight]

- no grenade launchers
- no stun grenades
- 1 smoke grenade per team
- 1 flash/smoke grenade each
- no semi-auto sniper rifles ( including that barrett 50.cal)
- map list needs to be sorted (ie noone wants to play that shitty bloc map, or shipment)

[blight]

- no grenade launchers
- no stun grenades
- 1 smoke grenade per team
- 1 flash/smoke grenade each
- no semi-auto sniper rifles ( including that barrett 50.cal)
- map list needs to be sorted (ie noone wants to play that shitty bloc map, or shipment)
- remove sprint OR remove health regen

[`Dirty Heathen]

No nade launchers?? there a default attachment on the m16??

So why not have them?

Alot of the things you have listed are nilla settings its the way it should be played.

[5loth]

- no grenade launchers
- no stun grenades
- 1 smoke grenade per team
- 1 flash/smoke grenade each
- no semi-auto sniper rifles ( including that barrett 50.cal)
- map list needs to be sorted (ie noone wants to play that shitty bloc map, or shipment)
- remove sprint OR remove health regen

this is Call of Duty 4, not a previous cod.

why would you want to remove sprint?

[`Dirty Heathen]

Also why do people a have a stigma about sniper rifles I have not keen killed very often from snipers I find most maps there usless.

[Hazard]

Lots of questions, so little time to answer them all.
Good to see though. I'll be answering each and every question as I get time during the day.

One I will answer now though is the limiting of grenades, etc.

The game is a tactical combat game, and such things as smoke, flash bangs, etc are all tactical weapons. All teams will be given the same options to pick the same weapons - it will be up to the teams to make the best use of said weapons.

Things like grenades, smoke, flash, etc all take skill to use them correctly and effectively. None of them give you an instant advantage as a) you must use them well or they are wasted, and b) the other team will also have them at their disposal.

Limiting the game to only a selection of guns and limiting other weapons will, in my opinion, take away many aspects of what makes this game so much fun and as such, it would take away from the competition and challenges.

[Brave Warrior]

Comments:
- Limiting the team rosters to 6 to me sounds a bit OTT. That gives very little chance for absences (for whatever reason, legitimate or not) and to what end does it achieve, or prevent?
- what process will be used to decide who starts on which side first? (attack/defend)
- In terms of rounds, an alternative might be something like
-> x rounds, no team swapping
-> half time, swap
-> x rounds, no team swapping
So, in practice, say maybe x = 10. All rounds played regardless of any outcome after a team reaches 11 round wins.
- Will anti lag be on or off? presume on?
- What will sv_fps be set too?
- Have you engaged the makers of PAM to get the tournament rule based included into release 1 of PAM for COD4?
- Can you please post the final map list?
- Can you please post the contents of the server config file, minus sensitive stuff. To comment on settings that have not been posted? Or settings that are not the default that have not been disclosed already. (this also allows for clan serevrs to be set accordingly, for scrimming etc)
- What punkbuster client dvars (if any) will be enforced? (eg. maxrate, cl_maxpackets, etc)

On one hand I think a tournament at this stage is a bit early. The global gaming community is barely coming to grips with the game in terms of what works and what does/will not. However, on the other hand, it is also good to "just do it" and re-work stuff that doesn't work in future tournaments. (either by the same group, or another)

PAM will be a critical tournament MOD for COD4. I recommend any tournament to register interest on wormsworld, to ensure their rulesets are included in the initial release.

[BeNZene]

On one hand I think a tournament at this stage is a bit early. ... However, on the other hand, it is also good to "just do it" and re-work stuff that doesn't work in future tournaments.

I have to agree with your other hand. I think (based on the forum postings and vibe of the community) there more than enough appetite for a competition. And it won't have to be the last one either.

[`Dirty Heathen]

6 players for a 5v5 comp is too few IMO.

Should be at least 8 to allow for other prior commitments etc.


I have to agree with this as well I would rather run one team of 8 and allway have enough players.

[Spigalau]

Can I enter a team sponsored & named by www.kipper4.net.nz or will that be an issue ?

[Brave Warrior]

Limiting the game to only a selection of guns and limiting other weapons will, in my opinion, take away many aspects of what makes this game so much fun

It might be a case of "having too" but only time will tell. Putting in place weapon restrictions can usually only be made after enough time has passed playing the game to see if it is warranted or not. So a stance now of "none" is reasonable, so long as it changes if the need arises...

[elemunk]

Love that your not looking to tacticaly dumb the game down for previous CoD series players Hazard, its great to see.

I also agree with the smoke and nades, limiting teams to ONE smoke is so so silly, for an attacking team, smoke is the backbone of the side.

Not sure if it's an option, but removing just the stun grenades (flashbangs are fine) would be a good thing, alread I am seeing (and can myself) exploit these for a huge advantage.

[Cripple]

In Counter Strike, you play 15 rounds, swap teams, and it is the first
to 16 rounds. This is a completely even way of scoring.

If you want this to have a fair scoring manner, that can't be disputed,

you should change it to only one swap over needed, and the winning score
to be one more than the roundswap number.

Question on this then..

Format is first to 13 now, so given your example of an easily defendable map, team A defends to 12, teams swap and team b defends to 12. Team A then defends once for the victory. Still a massive advantage to the first team defending.

Or have I missed something?

[SmiLinSniPeR]

Comments:
- Limiting the team rosters to 6 to me sounds a bit OTT. That gives very little chance for absences (for whatever reason, legitimate or not) and to what end does it achieve, or prevent?
- what process will be used to decide who starts on which side first? (attack/defend)
- In terms of rounds, an alternative might be something like
-> x rounds, no team swapping
-> half time, swap
-> x rounds, no team swapping
So, in practice, say maybe x = 10. All rounds played regardless of any outcome after a team reaches 11 round wins.
- Will anti lag be on or off? presume on?
- What will sv_fps be set too?
- Have you engaged the makers of PAM to get the tournament rule based included into release 1 of PAM for COD4?
- Can you please post the final map list?
- Can you please post the contents of the server config file, minus sensitive stuff. To comment on settings that have not been posted? Or settings that are not the default that have not been disclosed already. (this also allows for clan serevrs to be set accordingly, for scrimming etc)
- What punkbuster client dvars (if any) will be enforced? (eg. maxrate, cl_maxpackets, etc)

On one hand I think a tournament at this stage is a bit early. The global gaming community is barely coming to grips with the game in terms of what works and what does/will not. However, on the other hand, it is also good to "just do it" and re-work stuff that doesn't work in future tournaments. (either by the same group, or another)

PAM will be a critical tournament MOD for COD4. I recommend any tournament to register interest on wormsworld, to ensure their rulesets are included in the initial release.

In responce to the highlighted text.

In CSS everyone spawns with a knife only an have a massive knife fight in the centre.
Which ever team wins gets to choose.

[Snake_Daddy]

is this a nz tourny only? soz if its been mentioned somewhere but i couldn't find it.

[blight]

this is Call of Duty 4, not a previous cod.

why would you want to remove sprint?

i said either health regen or sprint, preferably the former. Currently its way to easy to just run around a corner and regen after being shot at. Its not about making cod4 like an previous cod, its about making the gameplay more about skill and teamwork. how skillful is it to aim a grenade launcher in the general direction of your enemy and getting a guaranteed kill? how skillful is it to smoke out an entire map then sit in a corner and wait for someone to walk past you and shoot them in the back? how tactical will it be to have enough flashbangs to throw into every single room in the map and then some? how skillful is the 50.cal semi-auto-no-recoil sniper rifle?

another thing
- remove the mounted machineguns
the fact is there are certain things in this game that are completely overbearing and detract from the game

[B|ade]

is this a nz tourny only? soz if its been mentioned somewhere but i couldn't find it.




I think it is, and should be NZ only clans.

and also there is a lot of activity and clans in the nz cod community in these forums for this tourny to begin relatively soon.

[5loth]

Question on this then..

Format is first to 13 now, so given your example of an easily defendable map, team A defends to 12, teams swap and team b defends to 12. Team A then defends once for the victory. Still a massive advantage to the first team defending.

Or have I missed something?

that would result in a draw.

[5loth]

i said either health regen or sprint, preferably the former. Currently its way to easy to just run around a corner and regen after being shot at. Its not about making cod4 like an previous cod, its about making the gameplay more about skill and teamwork. how skillful is it to aim a grenade launcher in the general direction of your enemy and getting a guaranteed kill? how skillful is it to smoke out an entire map then sit in a corner and wait for someone to walk past you and shoot them in the back? how tactical will it be to have enough flashbangs to throw into every single room in the map and then some? how skillful is the 50.cal semi-auto-no-recoil sniper rifle?

another thing
- remove the mounted machineguns
the fact is there are certain things in this game that are completely overbearing and detract from the game

for every gren launcher you have, you have one less person with a silencer
on their weapon, which is effective all game, as opposed to only two grenades.

re: how skillful is it to smoke out an entire map then sit in a corner?

how skillful is it to run thru said smoke aimlessly?

and given the close quarter nature of most of the maps, a sniper is going
to be useless compared to an automatic assault rifle.


this is a simple tournament, for a new game, for fun.

this is not a dead-serious competition with huge prizes on the line.

with the nades, you can only carry one special nade, so for every smoke, theres one less flash/stun,
leaving a max of 5 special nades for a team per round, of 2:30.

[Brave Warrior]

In responce to the highlighted text.

In CSS everyone spawns with a knife only an have a massive knife fight in the centre.
Which ever team wins gets to choose.

Yeah man, I played CS too ;) But yup, I did presume that "knife round" would be the case, it just wasn't stated. In previous COD versions the same was done with "bash" but only because there was no knife.

[Xt1ncT]

5v5 is the standard scrimming layout so I see no problem there

however If your talking about reserves, should be able to have a wee bit moreYeah I know 5v5 is a standard scrim team in a lot of other games.

I was talking about limiting the reserves to just one. That's not enough. It shuld be at least 8 so there are 3 reserves that you can pick from.

[Marak2.0]

Yeah I know 5v5 is a standard scrim team in a lot of other games.

I was talking about limiting the reserves to just one. That's not enough. It shuld be at least 8 so there are 3 reserves that you can pick from.

yeah that sounds reasonable. not everyone of the 6 is always goin 2 b available. rl shit is unexpected sometimes.

[Hazard]

Will the weapons that are available be ones you have unlocked?

Also, maps.

Some suck balls. E.g. Wet Work and Shipping, and will also suck balls for a tourney. Can those 2 maps be left out?

I will be finalising the weapons details tonight/tomorrow night. My plan is (at this stage), everyone will have the same selection of weapons available to them. This is why it will be important for teams to get on the server early so they will have time to sort kits out, etc.

The thing with limiting maps is that a map you may hate, someone else will love. So it is a very tricky thing to do and keep everyone happy at the same time. The maps you mention aren't great maps with larger player numbers, but remember it will be 5 vs 5 - so the dynamics of the maps will change completely.


Any estimate time or date yet?

We cant register without one, and I have had a look around for the date.

Not just yet sorry, I will be working on finalising the dates early this week. I will post it as soon as it is sorted.


6 players for a 5v5 comp is too few IMO.

Should be at least 8 to allow for other prior commitments etc.

Ask and you shall receive... well, sometimes. Team limit is now 8.
5 players and a maximum of 3 reserves.


Are you going to limit the number of snipers/shotgunners in a team or can anyone have as many as they like in the one team?

There will be no limits on kits/weapons that a team can use. It will be up to the teams to pick and use combinations that work well for them. If a team wants to all play as snipers, they will be allowed. The reason is, it will be about coming up with your own tactics, your own team style, etc. By limiting weapons and options, you limit the tactics and the possiblity of different styles of play.


So you can use any unlocks weapons and attachment but no perks sounds good to me.

That's the plan. I hope to finish all testing of said plan this evening or tomorrow evening. Once things are finalised I will make an announcement to that effect.


Agreed that we need a date. Ideally at least 2-3 weeks off, as most teams are still familiarising themselves with maps/gameplay, and many players are in the middle of end-of-year university exams for the next week or two.

This will be taken into consideration before any dates are announced.


is this a nz tourny only? soz if its been mentioned somewhere but i couldn't find it.

Yeah, my bad - I haven't announced any formal rules on this yet.
The tournament is really only for NZ Teams or teams that have a strong tie to ICONZ Arena. The main reason being if it is open to Aus teams, we will most likely get a much larger number of teams and thus the competition will require more of everything, more time, more resource, etc. The other consideration is sending prizes overseas creates issues and incurs additional costs.

I will have a think about this and make a formal ruling on it shortly. But my gut feeling is that Aussie players in NZ Teams will be more than welcome, but they may have to be excluded from the prize pool.

[Xt1ncT]

Can I ask why S&D was chosen?

Headquarters would have been a lot better IMO.

S&D is just counter strike with better graphics, and as such is a fail.

[Temp]

this is a simple tournament, for a new game, for fun.

this is not a dead-serious competition with huge prizes on the line.


How do you know what it is, when we have not said what they are? I expect this to be a competitive tournament, so if you want to treat it like that that's fine, but with the effort that goes into it from an administrative end and the effort some clans will put in it is a dead-serious competition from our point of view. Sure, we're not sending anyone overseas, but you don't need to talk it down because the prizes might not be as elaborate as you're used to.


Can I ask why S&D was chosen?

Headquarters would have been a lot better IMO.

S&D is just counter strike with better graphics, and as such is a fail.

Jeeze it doesn't matter what it is, you've always got something to complain about! How do you do it?

[Xt1ncT]

Jeeze it doesn't matter what it is, you've always got something to complain about! How do you do it?Well this does say it's the discussion thread, so I asked a relevant question.

If you don't like questions being asked, don't run a comp.

[Ra1nm4n]

I'm taking bets now.

[5loth]

How do you know what it is, when we have not said what they are? I expect this to be a competitive tournament, so if you want to treat it like that that's fine, but with the effort that goes into it from an administrative end and the effort some clans will put in it is a dead-serious competition from our point of view. Sure, we're not sending anyone overseas, but you don't need to talk it down because the prizes might not be as elaborate as you're used to.




This is a fun competition and a chance for all teams to get involved in some good local competition

I have given up some of my own time to advise rules and assist hazard whereever possible to ensure this tournament runs smoothly.

now, if you'd like to go ahead and answer the previous guys half page full
of questions (which is what and why i responded as i did in the first place), go right ahead.

[Temp]

Well this does say it's the discussion thread, so I asked a relevant question.

If you don't like questions being asked, don't run a comp.

Yes I see you have a question, but it's the complaining I am referring to. Everytime you and I crop up in the same thread it seems you're unhappy about something. I have no problems with questions.

On the flip side buddy, if you don't like the comp, don't play in it.


I have given up some of my own time to advise rules and assist hazard whereever possible to ensure this tournament runs smoothly.

Yep you're very quick to offer your advice.



now, if you'd like to go ahead and answer the previous guys half page full
of questions (which is what and why i responded as i did in the first place), go right ahead.

Ok you got me there, I did not realise Hazard had already described the tournament as this and you're right. Sorry about that.

The reason for my comment was because I don't know why you make mention of prizes and the standard of them when you have no idea what they are.

[Hazard]

Just to clearify, I meant fun as in it will be good fun, not that it's any less of a serious event. I know there are several teams out there are have and will put in a lot of effort into this.

[5loth]

The reason for my comment was because I don't know why you make mention of prizes and the standard of them when you have no idea what they are.


i didn't mean to downplay the tournament in any way, or the prizes, i was referring
to the overall scale of the competition.
i was simply responding to the guy who asked half a page of questions,
in that for the scale of the competition, they were a bit over the top,
so sorry if it came across that way.
i wouldn't expect that many questions unless it was some kind of life or
death competition.

i hope all teams that participate take the competition as seriously as possibly,
i can assure you we will be, we're here for the enjoyment of the game, and
the competition itself.

[5loth]

Just to clearify, I meant fun as in it will be good fun, not that it's any less of a serious event. I know there are several teams out there are have and will put in a lot of effort into this.

again i'll clarify, i wasn't suggesting it was any less,

but stating that for the scale of the tournament, half a page of fine details

probably aren't necessary.

[kiwibaa271]

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/1928/makelovenotwarstickerly3.jpg

[SirGrimNZ]

May I ask,when will the torunament be commencing ?

[Snake_Daddy]

yer even if its just a rough estimate 2 weeks, 4 months

[Hazard]

4 months, you guys need all the practice you can get :P

seriously tho, I will have a rough, if not final date this evening.
Sorry it's been a while to get a date, just lots to try and arrange.

[elemunk]

http://www.murphywhips.com/Anatomy_of_a_Stock_Whip.jpg

[Hazard]

promises, promises :drool:

[Spork]

For the team registrations, we can't edit our posts to fill in the remainder of the team as you've locked the thread.

So are we meant to PM you with details or?

[Hazard]

yeah, I'm not so smart some of the time.... well... most but shhhhh.
I've unlocked the thread now, also I'm looking for 1 more team if there are still people wanting to enter

[Hazard]

Check out the official announcement thread for info on the pool draws and quarter finals structure.

We are now having 2 pools of 11 to shorten the length of the round robin.

[solman]

Looking Good Haz,:bounce:

I think we'll keep you on for a while yet:knife:

[Spork]

Just curious again with the team members.

If ons ore more members(who were a part of the COD4 team) leaves a clan for what ever purpose during this tournament, are we allowed to name a new participant? Or do we have to play with who we have?

[Benji77]

who are is the sponsor/s and what are the prizes??

[Hazard]

welcome to my headache :P

We have 1 sponsor who is generously providing over $1300 worth of prize pool for the winning team's core members (I'll announce the details of this after I confirm everything is signed off).

However I am still in talks with other possible sponsors so it is most likely I won't have the details of the full prize pool until early next year.

[pyro]

Are pbss's going to be set to auto during the comp. Just an extra hacking prevention method. Also sorry if I missed this already, is their going to be a break over the chrissy new year period? Im sure most of us will be away for a week in a drunken slumber.

p.s. if you need any help with ref's etc im happy to help out, just hit me up on msn.

I assume the neg rep on this post is from some tard not wanting pbss during the comp, considering no name was left or no reply to this post.

[Brave Warrior]

Actually getting the pbsv.cfg posted would be nice, to confirm that and any other settings...