Mod or Not

[Hazard]

Now, as this seems to be one of the biggest arguments here, I would like to discuss it as adults.

So please, please keep this mature and only post if you are actually interested in discussing this subject - not just to increase your post count or to get a knee jerk reaction.


Right, on to discussion:

The way is see it is that this not a mod. It is a game built on an existing engine.
This has been happening for as long as games have been around.

ID Software for example makes a large amount of money from selling their latest engines to other developers. Just look at the number of games that came out using the Quake 2, Quake 3 and now DOOM3 engine.

All the games built on these engines are not mods, they are games in their own right that simply licence the the use of an engine the already exists.

I looked up what the definition of a mod is. One of the first lines from wiki (I loves my wiki :P ) is this:

Mods are made by the general public, and can be entirely new games in themselves
Mods that add new content to the underlying game are often called partial conversions, while mods that create an entirely new game are called total conversions


Now this is the way I see a mod - it works on top of the existing game, but it uses core parts of the original game. PoE2 is an example of this. They have done a lot of work (very good work) and made a total conversion, but it still requires core parts of BF2 in order to run.

Now for them to make a "new" game from it, it would have to run completely seperate from BF2, thus they would need to licence the use of the engine BF2 uses and then charge us for PoE2 as a completely new game.

BF2142 is a new game as it will not require BF2 to be installed on our systems. Sure it uses the same engine as BF2, but this engine will be modified in several ways. So I don't see it as justified calling BF2142 a mod, rather than what it is - the next game in a series.
It does not have the need for core elements of BF2 to be present as they will all be installed with BF2142.

We all know that there are hundred of games built on existing engines that are not called mods. A few examples are Prey (on DOOM3 engine), Medal of Honour (on Quake3 engine), Jedi Knights (on Quake3 engine), and there are many, many more.

What I want to see is some valid points as to why people are saying this is a mod rather than a game built on an existing engine and why people do not call some of the other games mentioned mods? And please post good, intelligent remarks so we can debate this issue, because to be honest, most of the arguement for this being "only a mod of BF2" appears to be anti-EA rather than justified remarks. I'm not an EA fanboy in any way, I really do want to discuss this.

[Simon_NZ]

Hazards well worded post has convinced me, he also agreed that if I agree with him he will give me cheap bitches.

[Spigalau]

I guess the answer to your question would be to look at the beta files and see if they used the BF2 editor to develop it. If they did, it's a glorified mod, if they didn't it's a stand alone entity.

But then applying Hazards agruement, if Special Forces had more maps, could it have been marketed as a stand alone entity ? It has new unique features too and suffers from same BF2 engine hiccups.

[Fubar]

No your right it isn't a mod as we will be charged a "new game price" for it.

I only jokingly call it a MOD due to the dirty taste in mouth being BF2. To me its a reskinned BF2 and EA trying to recoup costs and save face for the bad job they did with BF2

[Hazard]

I think they would have used most, if not all of the current development tools for BF2, they would just be updated to accomodate the new content, textures, effects, etc.

In games like Jedi Knights, you could make levels using a re-badged version of the Quake3 editing program (forget what it was called). But that is due to it using the same engine, so they will naturally share development tools.

I don't think this really means it's a mod, it's more along the lines of not re-inventing the wheel. If you have existing development tools for a said game engine, why remake them?

[Spacemonkey]

Most games that come out work on the same engine, Valve are not going to make a new engine, the Source engine works fine it's powerful enough for all the games they will release in the near future, Quake 4 uses the Doom 3 engine, C&C 3 will be using an upgraded version of the C&C generals engine.

What the point of putting lots of work into and spending lost of money on a new game engine when you already have one that works?

EA have the right idea, once they have worked out the bugs, it will be a solid engine, and they can just build future releases on it, spend more time on developing content and gameplay.

[KiLL3r]

the thing is most bf2 player have been fed with a solid gold spoon. they think ea has been screwing them over but look how many patches have come out since the games release. A hell of alot more then most multiplayer games ever get. EA doesnt have to make patches or listen to anything you have to say. But they do and all you can do in return is bite the hand thats feeding you.

And fubar everything you say is absolutely absurd. tell me wot losses are ea trying to recoup? BF2 was a roaring success just as 2142 will be

[MrBenis]

In it's current state, 2142 is a mod.

PoE2 has more content, and is based off the same engine. PoE2 > 2142 in at least the amount of "stuff" area.

[Hazard]

Can you please give some justified points as to why you feel it is a mod in it's current state?
Not trying to say you're wrong, but I want to discuss this with valid points.

[Fubar]

And fubar everything you say is absolutely absurd. tell me wot losses are ea trying to recoup? BF2 was a roaring success just as 2142 will be

Do you actually read the posts Killer? I said its not a MOD. As for costs/losses I'm referring to the work involved in correcting the engine, that takes time and money and how do they get a return on this investment? They release a new game. I don't have a problem with this but I do have a problem with them releasing a new BF title when the previous one keeps falling over hence why I view it as a reskinned BF2

[Arnifix]

It is quite a bit more advanced than bf2. I doubt that a mod team could replicate it given the same resources.

[Spigalau]

...but look how many patches have come out since the games release. A hell of alot more then most multiplayer games ever get.

Kill3r, there's one flaw in your logic, 3 of the patches were released not to fix bugs but to provide compatability with the EA add-on's (SF, EF & AF). You only have to look at the problems that EA have addressed with the pure BF2 system and it's bugger all fixes: nerfed the black hawk, attempted to remove C4 tossing, attempted to remove Prone Jumping, attempted to fix red/blue (a bug they denied existed for what 6 months), etc. The number of bugs that the extra content has created on the other hand is... cartillery, the multi-crate/car drop, the kakland hotel exploit, the invincible medic of doom. You only have to look back at what Karkand was like when people figured out that SF Flash Bangs could be used, that server was Kak for weeks.


It is quite a bit more advanced than bf2. I doubt that a mod team could replicate it given the same resources.

Arni you may have to look back and see what some of the original 42 mod's were able to achieve without access to the SDK. EOD - Napalm, DC - Scud Missiles, FH - well that's just sexy, Star Wars - hrrmmm Walking MECH units, etc.

The BF2 was touted as being an open engine that allowed mod's to be easily developed, with fully functioning SDK, etc. Reality is that the BF2 editor was late, is buggy and is bloated. It's like EA dont really give a damn.

[TofuEater]

the thing is most bf2 player have been fed with a solid gold spoon. they think ea has been screwing them over but look how many patches have come out since the games release.

I don't think i've been fed with a solid gold spoon at all. What i want is stability, and it's just not there. This is not only disappointing, but it has turned me off supporting EA/Dice, because i just don't think they can deliver.

It would be like getting your car serviced and it came back with a misfiring engine. The garage promises to fix it for you, so you send it back. The car comes back, but the car still misfires. In the meantime the passenger door has gone missing. No worries, says the garage - we can fix that.

So you send it back to them a third time, the door is back, but it doesn't fit properly. In order to shut the door you need to grab the opposite doorhandle and yank it closed with all your might. As you drive off down the street the door willl fly open at random times. Not only that, the engine still misfires................

This sounds absurd, and it is. But it illustrates the kind of behaviour that software companies have been getting away with for years. It's not only EA, there are plenty who release buggy software and try to palm it off as unavoidable.

What has changed though, is that there are practices and methods that ensure that it doesn't need to be this way - and people gravitate to the companies who adopt rigourous methods to ensure that quality products make their way to the sales shelves. They are the companies that i will support with my gaming dollar.

[Jack_L]

My understanding of a mod is where a game's .exe file is re-used in its unaltered state with any other combination of files or data.

the .exe file is the copyrighted source. to alter an .exe is to break international copyright law and for modders. is the line you avoid stepping over unitentionally.

all other files provided in a game are open to modification. legally and historically, developers wont go after you if you play by those rules.

generally the sdk's open or allow information of everything but the .exe


so Special Forces is a mod, POE is a mod, EF an AF are mods.

if they alter the .exe for 2142. it will not be a mod of bf2

rules for mods is also that a modder does not sell or profit from the distribution of code which includes the .exe. hence mods being free.

my experience with groups of modders is that small teams of enthusists generally work on a big mod and then if they are good at it, they try to get work on a project. generally doesnt happen but most are usually in the business anyway.

another topic

if a developer like dice intends to continue development - they usually dont get too supportive of mods. it does them out of business if everyone is playing a variant of their game which is free.


alternatively, games that the developers wont go any further with, tend to be good matter for modders - provided the game was good to begin with.

[HyperBlade]

the thing is most bf2 player have been fed with a solid gold spoon. they think ea has been screwing them over but look how many patches have come out since the games release. A hell of alot more then most multiplayer games ever get. EA doesnt have to make patches or listen to anything you have to say. But they do and all you can do in return is bite the hand thats feeding you.

And fubar everything you say is absolutely absurd. tell me wot losses are ea trying to recoup? BF2 was a roaring success just as 2142 will be

3 Months stuck with a patch that crashes the servers, we can't roll back as lose ranked, we can't go forward to beta which fixes the problem becasue ea servers only are allowed to run it.

And you say thats been feed with a golden spoon?

Most other games when they release a patch they fix stuff, Ea have been only patching to make way for their boosters and expansions. Of which sf ruined bf2 the original game.

FFs they released a patch which crashed game servers, sometimes 10 crashes in an hour, most companies would actually hotfix that. :cussing:



As to bf2142 is it a mod? No its a standalone game, most game companies do it, theres no issue there.

[Captcol]

IBut then applying Hazards agruement, if Special Forces had more maps, could it have been marketed as a stand alone entity ? It has new unique features too and suffers from same BF2 engine hiccups.

But spec forces needs to have bf2 installed to run doesn't it?

[Captcol]

uh sorry for the above i should really refresh my browser more often before posting

[Black Heart]

a mod, it's free. as long as you have the pre-existing game it was modded from.

BF2142 is not a mod. sure someone who is motivated could probably make a very close replication of it under the current bf2 engine, but it's marketing is what defines it as a seperate game.

a game that sucks donkey cock.

its actually insulting to the modding community to call 2142 a mod.

[Spigalau]

Bugger... "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Black Heart again."

[Bell]

It is quite a bit more advanced than bf2. I doubt that a mod team could replicate it given the same resources.

I totally think they could, Bf2 modders are given jack all to work with, if bf2 had a extensive SDK like HL2 does a mod team could make something like 2142.
As spig said look at what people did with extremely limited mod support in bf42.
FH looks and feels like a completely different game of even higher quality than bf42.

[MrBenis]

Can you please give some justified points as to why you feel it is a mod in it's current state?
Not trying to say you're wrong, but I want to discuss this with valid points.

I don't need to. It can all be found HERE (http://www.forumplanet.com/planetbattlefield/bf2142beta/index.asp)

Password is: betafp_bf2142

Don't say I told you, although I'm not forbidden to telling you guys how to access the beta forums, I probably shouldn't anyway.

[KiLL3r]

I don't think i've been fed with a solid gold spoon at all. What i want is stability, and it's just not there. This is not only disappointing, but it has turned me off supporting EA/Dice, because i just don't think they can deliver.

It would be like getting your car serviced and it came back with a misfiring engine. The garage promises to fix it for you, so you send it back. The car comes back, but the car still misfires. In the meantime the passenger door has gone missing. No worries, says the garage - we can fix that.

So you send it back to them a third time, the door is back, but it doesn't fit properly. In order to shut the door you need to grab the opposite doorhandle and yank it closed with all your might. As you drive off down the street the door willl fly open at random times. Not only that, the engine still misfires................

This sounds absurd, and it is. But it illustrates the kind of behaviour that software companies have been getting away with for years. It's not only EA, there are plenty who release buggy software and try to palm it off as unavoidable.

What has changed though, is that there are practices and methods that ensure that it doesn't need to be this way - and people gravitate to the companies who adopt rigourous methods to ensure that quality products make their way to the sales shelves. They are the companies that i will support with my gaming dollar.



you forget one thing. you pay a ,echanic to fix your car. EA dont make any money for patches so why should they bother?

[Jack_L]

because they have a returning client base that will buy more product if those customers are happy withexisting service. get with the programme

[BerG]

Because when I buy a new car I expect it to be working properly perhaps?

If Honda came to me and said they had to adjust my car so they could fit some other Hondas with reverse sensors, theres no way I would be paying for it.

[Fubar]

you forget one thing. you pay a ,echanic to fix your car. EA dont make any money for patches so why should they bother?

Ok killer you want a car analogy.

Ford releases a new car, its soon found to be defective it is the manufacturers responsibility to repair the faults!

[PhobosNoize]

depends whats wrong.

[Fubar]

Also just skimmed through the closed Beta forum. This is info I got from it and see what you reckon:

1) Red/Blue Bug
2) Connection Issues - Game Freezing
3) Grenade Launcher passes thru objects including Titan sheilds
4) Unlock Knife doesn't record as a knife kill
5) Crash to desktop
6) Hardware Sound bug
7) Vehicles suffer massive terrain damage when moving
8) Unlocks not appearing after several rounds
9) Lost stats and awards
10) Connection issues after winning an award etc - not recorded and are lost


Really does sound like BF2 to me :sunnies:

[KiLL3r]

Also just skimmed through the closed Beta forum. This is info I got from it and see what you reckon:

1) Red/Blue Bug
2) Connection Issues - Game Freezing
3) Grenade Launcher passes thru objects including Titan sheilds
4) Unlock Knife doesn't record as a knife kill
5) Crash to desktop
6) Hardware Sound bug
7) Vehicles suffer massive terrain damage when moving
8) Unlocks not appearing after several rounds
9) Lost stats and awards
10) Connection issues after winning an award etc - not recorded and are lost


Really does sound like BF2 to me :sunnies:


duh its a FREAKIN BETA!

[BerG]

Yes its a BETA, but it still has the red bug, which they have been unable to fix for the past year. What makes you think they will be able to fix it in the next month.

[Fubar]

duh its a FREAKIN BETA!

duh! I think you are missing the point here.

These for the most part are the same bugs that have plauged BF2 since its release 14 months ago. The above faults is only from 2 pages of 26 pages. Your argument is it is a new game but it has all the same bugs in it as BF2.

Ok I take your point its a Beta, but if they havent fixed the problems in the last 14 months with BF2 and the same bugs are in BF2142 what makes you think that they will fix them in the next 2 months???????

[Jack_L]

they're also known errors with historical code.

generally with a beta you're trying to ensure that your own system/functional testing has captured everything and your hoping a beta would pull out all the little unknown things.

they should have released a beta with a list of known bugs if they knew they were there

btw its not a mod

[KiLL3r]

they're also known errors with historical code.

generally with a beta you're trying to ensure that your own system/functional testing has captured everything and your hoping a beta would pull out all the little unknown things.

they should have released a beta with a list of known bugs if they knew they were there


they release a beta and let people find any bugs possible. thats what a beta is for.

[BerG]

Killer, what Jack is saying is that they have released it with bugs they already knew were there, which have been there for a long time :thumb:

[Jack_L]

they release a beta and let people find any bugs possible. thats what a beta is for.


that what you think maybe.

Where I work, we develop software and we build and test it in development, when then hand it to a specialised internal team for testing again. it goes round and around until the code reaches a level of low defects that are known and agreed with the customer before we release to UAT.

the customer gets release notes that itemise all known outstanding defects.

They then perform similar testing and anything they pick up goes back thru the dev cycle.

once it passes UAT, it goes to beta. because our customer doesn't want crappy code infront of there customers. the last thing thay want is a customer finding a problem. but they use a beta for training material usability and UI feedback.

sure sometime defects are found in beta where a customer does something that no thought of trying and the get an unpleasant outcome. but generally most test is completed before the end user see's it.

here's some other descriptions of Beta.
http://www.google.co.nz/search?hl=en&lr=&defl=en&q=define:Beta+Test&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title

oh an its not a mod

[Fubar]

Killer you tell us to bug off and not put down BF2142, we produce evidence to support what we are trying to say BF2 = BF2142, for example the bugs that plauge both games and you just can't see it. Like I said before "Do you actually read the posts before answering?"

[Fubar]

Ok try this analogy:

You own a Ford Falcon, body wise its fine but mechanically its pretty buggered.

You take all the Ford Panels off and put on Holden Commodore Panels.

The car now looks like a Commodore, but underneath that the changed outer shell its still the same mechanically flawed Ford

[Jack_L]

I'm interested in opening the .exe now and checking the differences

[KiLL3r]

WTF is the point of bagging a beta. For ll you know it was probly a build made 4-5 months ago. They are not going to release their lastest build so everyone can have a free game. they release a old build with bugs they KNOW exist and see if any finds any bugs that THEIR internal beta testers missed

[Jack_L]

yer that right. Philip fields is innocent and the ugly perversion of paid politicians does not exit in NZ.

I'm sure Santa agree's

[Fubar]

WTF is the point of bagging a beta. For ll you know it was probly a build made 4-5 months ago. They are not going to release their lastest build so everyone can have a free game. they release a old build with bugs they KNOW exist and see if any finds any bugs that THEIR internal beta testers missed

As we have seen with previous patches for example they repair one fault and create another. So your saying they release an old Beta to find bugs they may have missed in an attempt to find any others they have missed, then its not really a true Beta.

To release a Beta which is say 4-5 months old is just stupid especially when people like myself hear the same old bugs are still present - people will think why will buy another faulty game with the same issues! This makes no sound business sense. This sort of thing will swing the 30% undecided to the "I wont be getting it side"

Also if you are going to release a Beta with known issues you should say so, so they don't look like complete morons that havent actually tested what they are releasing

[Jack_L]

they have never exihibited solid testing yet. appears they do live beta trials as part of their own functional.

[Hazard]

Unfortunately games are always going to have bugs - some far worse than others.
I don't think we will truely be able to pass judgement on the extent of the bugs until it is released.

Some of the bugs that are present in the BETA do make me think "WTF?! How can that not be fixed", but we have to keep in mind that it is not a final product yet.

But I will agree that EA's previous patch attempts have pissed a lot of players off with good reason. Many to the point that they will not buy another EA game. But like I said, I will not be making a call on the bugs in this game until I have played the retail product. And as with every game, I am expecting bugs, I just hope they iron out the major ones.

[KiLL3r]

Also if you are going to release a Beta with known issues you should say so, so they don't look like complete morons that havent actually tested what they are releasing


thats what they have their special forum for which only beta testers can view.


and too prove its a old beta just go here and watch the first video.

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/battlefield2142/media.html
the minimap is different the hud is different.

[Menial]

ah ok, not sure what that has to do with mods...
Mods require the original game engine disks to be played imo.
nice flaming and comments through out the thread killer _b

[PhobosNoize]

Quote:
Originally Posted by KiLL3r
duh its a FREAKIN BETA!

duh! I think you are missing the point here.


<sigh>

<edit> ok how do you quote a quote? you cant nest them? have to just put side by side so to speak? ok then. thanks.

[Fubar]

thats what they have their special forum for which only beta testers can view.


and too prove its a old beta just go here and watch the first video.

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/battlefield2142/media.html
the minimap is different the hud is different.

All I can say is judging by the following list I doubt 2 months would be enough time!

BETA Testing Preventions

1.) Random CTD's whilst both loading and playing.

2.) "You have been kicked from the server for excessive teamkilling or..." bug, when you have only opted to join the server and are yet to even load.

3.) Screen goes black whilst loading. Game loads, but interface text is small and off-set. Back-drop ingame is pink.

4.) Servers often close.

5.) If a CTD occurs (Crash to Desktop), and you relaunch the game, the system has to hard reboot as the game will freeze the PC sometimes.

General Issues

- Extreme server instability.

- Knife attack is a soft swoosh. No one uses a knife like that - They need to be violent strikes.

- Numerous reports of the knife missing close-up targets, but striking distant targets given a close-combat weapon's range.

- Players still experiencing CTD's.

- Sometimes, the loading screen goes black but the loading icon remains moveable. When the map has loaded the text is off-set from it's boxes, and generally the interface becomes contorted. Also, the background in-game turns pink. Very pretty, but undoubtedly a bug :D

- Red tag bug still exists.

- BLUE tag bug - Rarely, enemies show up as allies.

- Weapon 4 does not exist. Special abilities begin at 5+, whereas main weapon is 3.

- Punish system needs to be re-worked. Very few people consider the circumstances of a teamkill anymore and punish. The system has become an option of; "Do you wish to be an arsehole, Yes or No?"

- Text from menus / certain objectives is yet to be implemented.

- If you receive an award in a match, then go linkdead before the end of the match, your BFHQ does not show the award (You still get the points for it though for your total score).

- Number of pins & medals recieved is rising into the 100,000's even if the player only has 30 or less. (This does not affect their global score however)

- No clear way to view dogtags.

- You recieve Titan Attack/Defense points for killing people in the vacinity of the Titan, for example in the base beside the Titan.

Option Issues

- Testing mic with BF2142VoiceSetup.exe works on the desktop but the in game test fails.

- Above mentioned occurs but Mic does work in game.

- Same issue as above 2 but mic is very low and barely detectable

- Same, but mic just doesn't work.

- Attempting to change the TALK TO TEAM key instead changes the VEHICLE POSITION #1 key.

- Attempting to change the PUSH-TO-TALK key instead deletes the PICKUP KIT key.

- Unable to play in window mode because once you put "fullscreen = 0" in the shortcut and try to join a server. This would cause error message to display while loading a map.

- Need to support video resolutions of 1280x1024 and higher, and various widescreen resolutions.

- Camera shake options are reversed. ON is OFF, and OFF is ON.

World Issues

- Minor obstacles stump soldier's movement.

- Sticking to corpse when dying instead of panning out to the respawn timer screen.

- Kill assists often don't work, especially for Anti-Tank classes.

- Lack of splash damage on Static AV's

- "You were killed" message at the end of the round bares no truth.

- "You were killed" message at random points bares no truth.

- The Titans respawn before the old Titan ends it's destruct animation at the end of a round.

Graphical Issues

- Trees at close range disappear on lower graphical settings.

- Hedges at short or larger ranges appear as green strips, or solid fence-like textures, and turn into hedges when very close to them.

- Textures on buildings fail to render often when scoped with the Titan Railgun.

- Name of friendlies takes too long to show at long range, very often I've seen snipers TK because their target didn't show up as friend before they shot them.

- Map missing above the 'Mission Brief' in the loading screen. The map is there on the same screen at the end of a round, but not when loading the game.

- Selected weapon jerks from running to ready position when sprinting. Especially funny when in stealth, and all of a sudden the node begins floating.

- Sometimes, the model for the Riesig-5's secondary gun is a large box that the player can see through. Much like the mystery triangle on the Helidyne Dropship.

- Commander assets sometimes produce odd textures once destroyed.

Sound Issues

- Various sound files missing.

- The Transport Helidyne horn quietens the engine noise somewhat for a few seconds.

- Choppy Voice-Overs on hardware mode.

- Only PAC victory music.

- Sometimes, players will sound as though they're constantly firing their gun when they aren't. This gives them away to enemy players and can provide an annoyance to team members. Very annoying due to the fact that the player themself cannot hear it.

- If you turn music off (volume set at 0%), end of match/round music still plays.

- If you click on tabs during the end of match screens (instead of letting it play through the normal 'slideshow'), the music will sometimes start another copy in the background, giving you multiple copies of the song playing.

- 33% is the default setting of music, however it's still quite loud considering the sound of the game and third-party programs such as TeamSpeak on 100%

Interface Issues

- Vote/Award text goes off the screen.

- 3 pronged crosshair is confusing and annoying. Rather than removing it, a selection of crosshairs to suit the individual player would be worth while.

- Compared to the HUD shown in the trailers, the new HUD/GUI is confusing and cheap.

- Hard to aim at anything in the air due to riticule and crosshair colour.

- "Buddy Message Recieved" 3x in game, whilst no message was sent.

- Though passengers do not count towards capturing bases, the capture bar still appears sometimes leading passengers to believe that by remaining within the protection of the vehicle they will recieve capture points.

- Whilst zoomed with the EU LMG, the red crosshair is off-centre to the Iron Sight. Very confusing.

- Squad Leaders still do not get a notification when people want to join their squads. This has been an issue ever since the launch of BF2 and is yet to be corrected. It provides the message 'Invite Request Timeout', but that's no use when we cannot see that people are requesting invites.

- When in zoomed mode with a weapon, if you press enter to open the map, then close the map, the map will automatically reopen when you go out of zoom mode.

- After deploying a sentry gun, if you replenish supplies from a crate, the sentry will reappear in your inventory, although it is not selectable.

- There is a bug where the minimap will disappear.

- Players receive team damage points for shooting teammates sentry guns/ sentry guns are not identified as friendly or hostile.

- For some reason, the cursor has stretched and enlarged itself (Cause unknown).

- When exiting stationary weapon positions sometimes, your weapon graphic disappears, this can be corrected by changing weapon and then back.

- Randomly, the Minimap decides to rotate consantly very fast in one direction. You can change the direction of the rotation by pressing "M". Also, while it is doing this, on the players death the kit menu show, but not the spawn map. The player spawns on the last chosen point.

[Fubar]

Class Issues

- Lack of sidearm for the Engineer.

- Anti-Tank weapons do not hit the target at close ranges.

- Some players feel that the lack of ammo for the Engineer is detrimental and will affect the number of players using them as their main class.

- Many players feel that the anti-tank weapons are too weak.

- Many players feel that the anti-tank weapons reload time is far too long.

- Ammo/Medical crates only provide points when held.

- Ammo/Medical crates should not 'explode' when they open.

- The support weapons jam up too easily given that you want us to fire constantly.

- The EU's standard assault rifle often turns the screen black whilst zoomed in.

- Engineer's risk their lives for a rarely awarded point whilst repairing.

- The Voss and FA-37 weapons seems a little overpowered compared to the support MG.

- The support gun is just as accurate crouching as it is going prone, but crouching is quicker.

Vehicle Issues

- Vehicles push players (and vehicles) instead of running them over.

- Slightest movement by enemy vehicles whilst placing RDX DemoPack to them causes instant death.

- Transport Helidyne turret snaps it's radius between 90 degrees and 180 causing serious 'lag' whilst trying to get it back to normal.

- Missles/Rockets often go through vehicles.

- The secondary turret sprite on tanks makes it impossible for both the gunner, and the cannoneer to see infront of them/what they're shooting at.

- The secondary turret on most vehicles has too large a sprite to be able to see what you're shooting at.

- Vehicle VoIP needs to be added!

- The Helidyne Dropship is much like the Blackhawk in BF2 - It's armour is FAR too low for a transport vehicle and it is pointless to use when a gunship barrage takes it, and it's 6 crew members out with ease.

- There is no incentive to fly the Helidyne Dropship as a primary transport unit for your team due to the lack of points recieved whilst helping team-mates fly around the map. This was the same issue in BF2 - The only way to obtain points is to get Driver Kill Assists from gunners, but if you're hovering over a base, they eject as well. Points need to be awarded for transporting people; perhaps 1 point for every 3rd person that pod's out?

- Sometimes when you exit the Dropship you are not in a POD, but believe that you are (Because you should be), and end up suiciding thanks to gravity.

- Often hard to get team mates to co-operate with regards to capturing bases via droping out of the Dropship. I believe that secondary fire should be a command that ejects all other players within the dropship to allow for a well timed, all-together drop onto locations of the pilots choosing. This will cause issues where players are dropped in the middle of no where; but they're 100% safe in their pods, and generally, pilots will only eject players at locations of importance no doubt.

- Mystery triangle still exists within the Helidyne Dropship.

- Mystery icons that look like rocket launchers attached to the buggy often.

- Ability to stealth within vehicles is rumoured to no longer be part of the feature. An excellent feature revoked for final release much like the AT's Air-To-Ground lock-on weapon for BF2, which we all saw in the trailers for that too?

- Tank shells drop too quickly given that tanks in 2142 are described to be out-of-sight artillary.

- Tanks described as out-of-sight artillary in 2142, but appear to have as much close-combat capability as they did in BF2.

- The TV missles are far too sensitive. Practically every player that's provided input on the issue of TV missles agrees that they are both too sensitive and too fast. Few also believe that the missle GAINS speed as it travels.

- Vehicle Kills / Team Kills too sensitive. Players often run up to transport helidynes to get in and are clothes-lined. Natrually, the players punish the pilot (Revamp the punish system or scrap it!). This is tied in with vehicle 'nudging' when planting RDX DemoPacks.

- Aircrafts 'jump' into the air when players get in them sometimes. Also occurs when switching positions from gunner to pilot, and when you spawn in as the pilot. Perhaps this is a feature to stop players spawning in a falling transport?

Building Issues

- Within wall-towers, the ladder leading to the top balcony drops through the floor, half way through the base of the tower.

- Several wall towers appear to be missing textures in the uppermost levels. I.e., in the demo map, the wall towers near the capture point SE of the centermost capture point are completely black.

- Helipads aren't solid, and cause helidynes to topple when they attempt to land, and cause multiple bumps when driving over them.

Unlock Issues

- Some players feel the Anti-Tank Rifle bullet is too slow.

- IPS shield i far too small and useless at it's current state.

- IPS shield holograph sprite is at a different angle to the rods that're supposed to be omitting it.

- Customisation window is heavily bugged - Often you are given the different kit options than the kit you selected, given unlocks you don't have, and sometimes unlocks you have are blacked out and unselectable.

- A-12 Defense Turret hovers whilst it's legs deploy to the ground. Cheap.

- Heavy Armour should be off by default, and/or made to become an unlock.

- BatNetTM needs a serious revamp, it appears to be useless, less than worth while.

- Rank is often displayed wrong.

- Sometimes unable to rank up even though you're over the required points limit.

- Displays the wrong global score in the main menu.

- RDX DemoPack goes through vehicles and consoles.

- RDX DemoPack fails to stick to vehicles/objects at times making it impossible to damage consoles or the reactor core.

- RDX DemoPack blast radius is too large.

- RDX DemoPack goes through the infantry shields inside the Titan.

- RDX DemoPack sometimes detonates as soon as it is thrown.

- It has been frequently suggested that vehicles and infantry destroyed/killed whilst under the effect of a players EMP, whether mine, grenade or weapon, should grant the EMPer kill assist points.

- Stealth has been changed since the trailers to give the player an aura, impeding the effect and usefulness of it.

- The Left-side unlock (Anti-Tank Rifle) fires at a different location than marked by the crosshair. It fires somewhat south-east of the crosshair.

- Quite a lot recently, the IPS shield has failed to produce it's sprite whilst still remaining functional.

- Rollermines apparently do 7 damage each to the REAR of the tanks. All 5 do not destroy a vehicle.

- Drones have movement problems navigating into position on higher vehicles and end up self-destructing.

- Drones disappear after you pod. Podding being one of the most important aspects of getting around as a squad.

- Squad Leader UAV drone's range is FAR too short, and doesn't even appear to work.

- Drones detonate on walls when their owners walk through doorways due to the height at which they fly.

- When killing an enemy's A-12 Enforcer Turret, you get a kill message for a random person.

- Grenades should be Weapon Slot 4 surely? 7 is a very long stretch, especially given that scrolling doesn't always work.

[Fubar]

Customisation Issues

- Heavy Armour will NOT stay off. Everytime I tick 'off', it puts itself back to ON.

- Once again, Heavy Armour should be OFF by default.

- Bug whereby unlocks are not displayed in the customization screen needs to be addressed ASAP. This issue has plagued a friend of mine and 95% of the time he is playing without his unlocks.

- "I have 8 or so unlocks, and when I customize assault and support (one for assaulting and one for defending the titan), and the server crashes, I must EXIT the game in order to be able to use my items. If I join another server without quiting out of BF2142, they will be shown as already customized, but I cannot use my items. ie. camo shield, turret, squad spawn beacon. Also, when the server crashes and I try to rejoin, 50% of the time when I try to join another server, the game crashes and I usually have to hard boot." - Puck1337

- "There was another bug found during stat-padding, where if two medics are next to each other, and an opponent kills them alternately while the medics revive each other, the medics will swap kits every revive. The kits swapped seems to apply to the default kit spawned with, no matter if the player picked up a new kit or not." - LavaTea

- When changing kit, it would be more advantageous if the squad leader item remained the same until changed, instead of having to change it with each kit.

Missle Silo Issues

- Whenever an enemy silo is neutralised by my team it gives the audio message that we've lost silo X, when it should say "We've neutralized silo X" or something of that nature.

- Missles should only damage the shield, not the hull - This makes for more interesting and player-based playing, rather than a boring game of take & hold until the round is won.

- Missle Silos 1 & 5, and 2 & 4 change numbers each round. 3 remains consistent.

- Rarely, when capturing a silo during it's firing stage, the silo can continued to keep spinning instead of firing after it's been captured.

- When a missle silo changes sides, and animates to fire a missle, it is possible to get permanently stuck in the silo.

- Sometimes the icon colour of the silo does not changed when the opposing faction captures it.

- Sometimes, even when you capture the silos, the missles will not fire and there is no countdown. Therefore you cannot take down the titans shields and the game goes on forever.

Titan Issues

- It snows inside the Titan.

- When the Titan moves, objects such as defense turrets, modules and crates slide off the titan and hang in the air. Vehicles on the hanger also slide, making take-off's very suicidal.

- Thrown objects on the Titan such as the IPS fall through the world.

- Reward for abandonning an exploding enemy Titan is not implemented.

- Reward for blowing up 4 Titan guns in a round is not implemented.

- Reward for destroying 4 consoles in a round not implimented.

- A-12 Defense Turret often fires at people through walls, or at nothing (causing friendly fire) whilst deployed within the Titan.

- Appacitor has movement issues within tight positions - It may get stuck against the floor if the Squad Leader moves downstairs quicker than the Appacitor can follow.

- Ability to gain access to a titan during shield-time needs to be addressed.

- Able to win the round once the shield is down without touching any consoles by running up to the reactor core doors, putting your back against it and dropping the support turret infront of you, pushing you through the door allowing you to shoot the reactor without anyone being able to reach you. Once the reactor is destroyed, the doors are opened and somehow, I always end up killing someone by setting the reactor core on fire, when I have no idea where they are.

- No explosion when rockets hit the core, leading to the belief that they pass right on through.

- White screen signifying the round end is not realistic, or necessary. All it does is blind all the players. A verbal notification / text of victory status would be much more helpful.

- No name for Titan railgun kills. Just displays X [killed] Y

- Titans are identical - I doubt they're made in the same country or by the same manufacturer.

- Engineers should be able to repair consoles.

- Explosives should be more effective against consoles.

- Munitions should be less effective against consoles.

- When spotting enemys in titan sometimes you spot the acctual titan

- Moving the titans can cause lag for some players.

- Players experiencing CTD's more commonly within the Titans, especially within the side-chutes (secondary assault entrance)

- Recon with stealth is capable of passing through the Titan shield.

Commander Issues

- Squad selection by click is difficult, resulting in using keys to select squads to issue orders to.

- When issuing orders, the icons do not coorespond to the correct orders, (i.e. when attack the obejective is selected, "move here" order is sent to squad.

- The above is also true for Squads

- Interface for praising or sassing squad is jittery and disappears before you can make a selection.

- UAV button shows up as available prior to the UAV being ready to re-deploy.

- When zoomed in on world map view - view is obscurred by red and blue opaque shapes (they look like the teams titan images smothered together).

- Moving the titan just causes havoc with lag and players upset.

- Sometimes when attempting to deploy a device, UAV, orbital strike, etc. it will not deploy, requiring several mad clicks to attempt to deploy it. Or, sometimes the map will jump around on you when you try to deploy, requiring you to zoom back out and reaquire the target area.

- "Orbital Strike" seems largely ineffective. Direct hits scored to area of tanks, hovercopeter, seem to have limited effectiveness. Infantry seems unfazed. I guess I was expecting more from this weapon (i.e. where's my artillery?)

- Inability to access chat box within Command Console.

- Delay with UAV and scan it showes full but you need to wait a few more seconds to accualy be able to use it.

- Blue/Red colours still apparent when zoomed within Commander mode.

- Supply Crate has no parachute.

- If a squad leader dies out of bounds, it is possible for a squad member to receive negative team points when he dies. This can be fixed by the squad member leaves and rejoins the squad. I'm not entirely sure what causes this situation.

- x2 bonus for winning the round does not appear to be functional.

Squad Leader Issues

- When accessing the secondary radio command menu as Squad Leader, most of the request options do not work.

- When accessing the secondary radio command menu as Squad Leader, there are no shorthand commands as there were in BF2 (Such as Attack/Defend).

- When accessing the secondary radio command menu as Squad Leader, the Commander assets are viewable at the bottom - Is this a feature of a mixture of the Commander/SL HUD?

- Squad Leaders orders are not representative of the objective set. Attack = Move, Defend = Attack, Repair = Defend.

- Field Upgrade bar never seems to raise. Even when your screen is spammed with +Squad Leader Bonus and +Squad Assist Bonus.

[private_hell]

that is a large amount of bugs

[Fubar]

http://www.abundantearth.com/store/media/PinkFlyingPig.lg.jpg

Here's what you get with the pre order :bounce:

[Spigalau]

that is a large amount of bugs

They are not bugs, they are just undocumented features. Well that's what we tell our users...

[KiLL3r]

why dont u give us a link to where u got that info from eh fubar

[Fubar]

I don't need to. It can all be found HERE (http://www.forumplanet.com/planetbattlefield/bf2142beta/index.asp)

Password is: betafp_bf2142

Don't say I told you, although I'm not forbidden to telling you guys how to access the beta forums, I probably shouldn't anyway.


Like I elluded to earlier Killer...........do you even read peoples posts?

[Arnifix]

For ll you know it was probly a build made 4-5 months ago. They are not going to release their lastest build so everyone can have a free game. they release a old build with bugs they KNOW exist and see if any finds any bugs that THEIR internal beta testers missed
I agree, bagging a beta is pretty dimwitted. But seriously, your logic is fucking ridiculous from then on. They would never release an old version of the game because then people would be reporting the same old bugs and none of the new ones, created by the fixes for the old ones.

And if BF2142 is so advanced, why hasn't a mod team tried to build it yet? It's a bit pointless saying "It's just a mod, why would you pay for a mod" when nobody out there has made this mod. I want to play in big rock'em sock'em robots! Nobody has made a mod that fills that void in my heart that giant-robots-that-fuck-shit-up fill.

Plus customisation gets me wet.

[KiLL3r]

Like I elluded to earlier Killer...........do you even read peoples posts?

benis is on my ignore list cus he steals my sigs and uses em on other forums

[Arnifix]

They are not bugs, they are just undocumented features. Well that's what we tell our users...
Sounds like a good way to tell your partner that you just gave them the aids.

[Spacemonkey]

come on guys, it's a beta,, it's meant to have bugs in it. EA will look at the feedback, then make the changes.

If the game comes out, and still has all the bugs, then complain all you want, but not before.

[Spigalau]

OK, from browsing the beta forum it looks like there are a few issues with the latest client (released Aug 31), you can read about them if you want there.

If this game is going to be shipped/released on time, by my reckoning they will need to have all the bugs ironed out by the end of this month, before they can cut a gold disc and get it off to production/shipping for the actual release date.

Will they make that goal ? Personally I think not, why not ? Track record... as I said to Kill3r it's like biting in to a lovely red apple only to find a rotten core. The issues that the testers are having are not small ones, they will require some major work to fix them

[Jack_L]

They are not bugs, they are just undocumented features. Well that's what we tell our users...

feature rich like SAP

[Spigalau]

feature rich like SAP

There's a reason why SAP rhymes with CRAP

[Jack_L]

lol

[Snake_Daddy]

why dont u give us a link to where u got that info from eh fubar

bhaahah i think fubar quickly typed it just to trick u :P

[MrBenis]

I LoL @ Killer.

[Hazard]

Well this thread was to debate the arguement that this was just a mod, it has rapidly become a bag the BETA thread again.

While everyone does bring up some valid point, I don't see the point in mocking a BETA for bugs.
Sure, there are some bugs that we all would have thought should have been fixed by now, but it is still a BETA, it does not represent a full or finished product.

I know they are not going to make the release date, very few games do these days.

But I just feel taking the piss of bugs in a BETA is a bit pointless.

[Fubar]

bhaahah i think fubar quickly typed it just to trick u :P

or it could be a bug or maybe even a beta forum glitch "jokes"

[Fubar]

But I just feel taking the piss of bugs in a BETA is a bit pointless.

Its all in good fun though. Nice to have such a good debate going on these forums rather than the usual spam.

As for BF2142 its not a MOD - I'll give you that

As for bagging the Beta - well it has the same bugs as BF2. Yes a Beta doesn't represent final product. But same bugs in BF2 means either BF2 was the pre-beta for BF2142 or we are just guinea pigs for EA testing cutbacks

[MrBenis]

Didn't feel much different when I was playing it..

[Bell]

And if BF2142 is so advanced, why hasn't a mod team tried to build it yet? It's a bit pointless saying "It's just a mod, why would you pay for a mod" when nobody out there has made this mod. I want to play in big rock'em sock'em robots! Nobody has made a mod that fills that void in my heart that giant-robots-that-fuck-shit-up fill.

Plus customisation gets me wet.

Once again i will tell you, The only reason people cant make a mod like bf2142 with the bf2 engine is because the SDK/engine is fucking shit.
I have the Hl2 SDK and have coded with it and, you can do so much with it, you can add customisation stuff, code new abilities and weapon types, shit people have even added in commanders etc into a game that never had them in the first place.
In bf2 you mostly deal with scripting, you can modifiy existing weapons, features etc by changing certain values but you can't really add anything new.
HL2 because Value has amazing mod support allows mod developers to make really advanced things, Bf2 because EA/DICE have average mod support restricts what modders can achieve.
I'm quite excited about quakewars because the company making it has a history of amazing mod support and they have announced there will be a full SDK (something like hl2's).
So i think i will be modding it :)

The only reason a mod team can't make bf2142 is because DICE has not given them the tools to be able to do it.

bf2142 is not a mod, but it might aswell be an expansion, from what I have seen they havn't really changed the engine very much.
So I don't see it being very enjoyable for long, it'll feel alil too same-old-same-old from day 1, atleast when 42/bfv/bf2 was first released it was a whole new experiance.
I would consider buying it at an expansion price but at full price? it doesn't seem like a very good deal.

[Arnifix]

bf2142 is not a mod, but it might aswell be an expansion, from what I have seen they havn't really changed the engine very much.
So I don't see it being very enjoyable for long, it'll feel alil too same-old-same-old from day 1, atleast when 42/bfv/bf2 was first released it was a whole new experiance.
I would consider buying it at an expansion price but at full price? it doesn't seem like a very good deal.
Why doesn't it seem like a good deal? Look how many games the Doom engine did! I don't remember anybody saying "Doom II is just an expansion, I shouldn't have to pay full price." They were more probably saying "FUCKING AYE! MORE DOOM! WITH A SUPER SHOTGUN!"

And the SDK might very well be bad. I just can't be bothered listening to you apes saying "a mod team could do it". A mod team probably COULD do it, if they tried hard enough, but DICE just happen to have a whole lot of people who do this for a living, and so they're doing it, and are going to sell it, so those people at DICE can have something to eat, besides their daily ration of human brains from EA.

The engine has problems, but that doesn't mean that it's "bad", just that it could be much better. If it were truely shit, why the fuck are you still playing on it? After all POE2 is just tweaked BF2.

And I don't think you could really say that it's an expansion, as it goes into completely different territory. For example GTA:VC vs GTA:SA. Just because it uses mostly the same engine doesn't mean that it should be considered an expansion.

Anyway, this is all pointless until the game comes out and we can play it. Then those of us who buy can tell those who don't whether it's worth it or not.

Also, why are you excited about Quakewars? Because it has modding potential? That's kinda weird dude. I dunno if QW will be good or not, but I'd never buy an ok game just because it has modding potential.

[KiLL3r]

none of the mods have original storylines. they are all based around modern day weapons or movies. The only mod with an original storyline i can think of is that apocolypse one and thats probly had a whole bunch of stuff stolen from mad max and the like.

[Bell]

The engine has problems, but that doesn't mean that it's "bad", just that it could be much better. If it were truely shit, why the fuck are you still playing on it? After all POE2 is just tweaked BF2.


Because overall POE has improved gameplay enough to make it worthwhile, everything I hate about poe is to do with the Bf2 engine.
PoE1 was still far suprieor and i'd much rather play that in all honesty but there are no NZ servers left and everyone wants thier new shiney gfx.



Also, why are you excited about Quakewars? Because it has modding potential? That's kinda weird dude.

Maybe because ive started doing some modding already with hl2 and am looking at joining with a QW mod team.


Doom was shit, especially Doom 3.
Tho your point on multiple games on the same engine is a valid one, there are many games built on exsisting engines that are very good, the thing is these game end up being completely different in gameplay sometimes even completely different genres, I can see 2142 playing very very similarly to bf2, i hope im wrong because then there might be even some value in buying it, but i just see the same UAV,Squads,Commander,weak weapons,Air rape formula emerging, infact alot of this has already been confirmed by people playing the beta.

[Bell]

none of the mods have original storylines. they are all based around modern day weapons or movies. The only mod with an original storyline i can think of is that apocolypse one and thats probly had a whole bunch of stuff stolen from mad max and the like.

http://pointofexistence.com/story-bfv.php
http://pointofexistence.com/story-bf2.php

[KiLL3r]

http://pointofexistence.com/story-bfv.php
http://pointofexistence.com/story-bf2.php


sure a cold war style war still nothing compared to a apocolyptic ice age with titans etcs

[Arnifix]

Doom was shit, especially Doom 3.
You ungrateful little shit! Wash your mouth out with soap! NOW!

God, the things I have to put up with.

[Bell]

haha, soz early FPS's just weren't my thing was more of a RTS fan till bf42.
And doom3 was just lacking gameplay especially the multiplayer side of things.. yuck.

[Spacemonkey]

Doom was shit, especially Doom 3.

The first doom was the best game ever.

I thought doom 3 was pretty good, awesome graphics, nice atmosphere, I don't know why people say it's not.

of course single player games aren't as popular anymore, I still like them, but times change i guess.

[Bell]

You could barley see the graphics because they hid it all with darkness :P
It did have nice atmosphere, but it also had the very out-dated, go find the keys to open the door! gameplay, got boring fast for me.
There are plenty of excellent single player games still around.

Rome:Total War, CoD and HL2 all impressed me.

With Supreme commander, Spore, Battlestations Midway & Medievil2:Total War all on the way.
(And maybe even S.T.A.L.K.E.R if we are lucky)

[KiLL3r]

doom3 was a great game has a great storyline. only problem with it was the gameplay was to repetitive. ie walk into room kill zombies who come outta the dark. pick up pda imp spawns near u kill it. go into next room kill zombies that come outta the dark. pickup guns n ammo imps spawns near u kill him etc etc ...

[Bell]

Agreed, and for me gameplay is %95 of the game so to me doom3 = crap.

[KiLL3r]

Agreed, and for me gameplay is %95 of the game so to me doom3 = crap.
get a mod called ambient light. it basically adds a glow around u but it makes it look like all the lights are on ;)

[MrBenis]

I just thought of a reason to buy BF2142... the Warhammer40k mod :D

stealth walkers, drones, hover tanks for tau.. ORKS... spacemarine squad-drop pods, so much shit.

But that's a long time away yet.

[Black Heart]

just buy dawn of war / winter assault / dark crusade. warhammer 40k mod is a bf2 mod isn't it ? or did they change it because they are just that slow ?

[Arnifix]

just buy dawn of war / winter assault / dark crusade. warhammer 40k mod is a bf2 mod isn't it ? or did they change it because they are just that slow ?
DoW is freaking great. Can't wait to get my hands on Dark Crusade as there will be a resurgence in lan games at my flat. For now, Darkstar One, BF2 and Uplink will have to do.

And on the Doom thing, I love it cause it's old school. It was one of the first games I seriously cut my teeth on, though no lan action, sadly. Doom 3 was a pretty good update though one I never finished. Should really get back to that.

[MrBenis]

^ Look for a pair of mods titled "cold breath" and "perfect". I run them, it increases the polygon count on every character model ingame, enables self-shadowing, adds more specular, just sexies up the game by about 1000%.

[Arnifix]

^ Look for a pair of mods titled "cold breath" and "perfect". I run them, it increases the polygon count on every character model ingame, enables self-shadowing, adds more specular, just sexies up the game by about 1000%.
What's this for benis? DoW?

[MrBenis]

^ It's for Doom3. I can link the files for you if you're interested.

Perfect mod will make the game harder too :P (guns are gruntier though) zombies only get killed by headshot, their guns much stronger etc etc.. its not for pussies, i tell yuo a what